Re: GPS approach question

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On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:10:05 -0600, "Steven P. McNicoll"
<roncachamp@writeme.com> wrote:

>
><les_Izmore@waitforit.com> wrote in message
>news:3c597823.13177736@netnews.att.net...
>>
>> This still does not answer my question.
>>
>> I cannot believe that ATC is going to routinely approve procedures
>> where separation depends on a pilot flying a 10 mile outbound leg in a
>> hold, i.e., where a pilot turning inbound after 5 miles is going to
>> cause a separation problem, unless he has been specifically requested
>> by a contoller to do otherwise.
>>
>> If I am wrong, I would love to have some controller set me straight,
>> and describe the circumstances under which such a loss of separation
>> would occur.
>>
>
>There is no circumstance under which turning inbound in the hold prior to
>the ten mile point could, by itself, cause a loss of separation. As long as
>you stay at your assigned altitude and within holding pattern airspace
>you'll be separated, and flying a shorter pattern certainly won't cause you
>to leave holding pattern airspace. But why would you want to turn inbound
>early anyway?
>
>
You might not.

But this guy (and Rosenfeld) have maintained from the beginning that
flying a ten mile leg is mandatory, and the pilot has no option to
turn early. That has been my bone of disagreement.

There are circumstances, however, when this might be desirable in a
holding scenario as well as during an approach.

Suppose you are holding and just start outbound, and the controller
says "EFC in 5 minutes". Would it not be prudent to consider a
shorter pattern? Why be 9 miles out when the clearance comes?
Shorter orbits keeps you closer to the fix, and you are on your way
sooner.

Anyway, some folks are just happier blindly following rules, even when
they make no sense. Nothing wrong with that, but when you are behind
them, you got to wait for them to fly their extra 20 miles on an
approach when they don't have to.